Mechanics Institute
Monday May 22 1854
Discussion Class
Present-The Chairman, Librarian, Messrs Johnston,
Gaswell?, B Smith, Bond, Inkpen, Mears, Reilly Sen and Junr, Campbell, Manson,
M Smith, Skillem?
Mr Farman paid two shillings and sixpence.
Mr Campbell proposed Mr J Snowball as a Member, seconded
by Mr Johnston.
When Mr Johnston propose the following subject for
discussion-“ Is the alleged essential intellectual inferiority of the cold
races correct?’’
The Chairman said that he had made no preparation to open
the discussion, regretted that Mr Johnston did not do so, having himself read a
little on the subject, but is of opinion their inferiority is correct. Coloured
people have not had the same education as the white, but even with such
advantages considers they would be inferior as there is a manifest want in the
intellectual capabilities, there are exceptions to all rules, and there is no
doubt many of the colored race have shown that much intelligent, but in the
aggregate the inferiority is evident, and must have facts and not mere
assertions to remove this opinion.
Mr Johnston said that it was an important question and one
in favour of the coloured race that the nations of antiquity were people of
colour and can trace much of our knowledge in Arts and Sciences to those
nations, alluded to the Egyptians in their stupendous works the Pyramids, to
the Blacks we are indebted for the invention of Letters, system of Arithmetic,
and many other magnificent works, all the result of the black man’s intellect,
entered into the question at some length and stated, and advanced very
interesting Historical facts, used racial of the coloured races possessing very
high attainments both in science, literature and war. He said that American
Indians were evident as Warriors. ______ their achievements, and those of the
East Indies their Architectural knowledge. In Africa some Blacks have
established a [blank pages].
Perth Mechanics Institute 12 June 54
Discussion Class
Present-The Chairman, Treasurer, Librarian, Messrs M
Smith, Inkpen, Campbell, Mitchell, Nairn, Mews, Munson, Allmond, Lenowns?,
Garden, Farmanar and Reilly.
The Chairman read letter to and from the Colonial
Secretary in reference to the sum of £50 placed on the Estimates on accord of
the Institute.
Mr Michael Smith presented as a donation 3 Books on
various subjects.
The Chairman-Proposed that Tenders the invited for the
putting of seven shelves for Books, with door fronts in the escapes of the
Walls of the Institute-which was Seconded by the Secretary and passed
unanimously.
Mr Farmanar handed in a Bill from Mr Walter Padbury for
£6.5.8 for Lime livid to the Institute, and notified that Mr Padbury presented
the same as a donation.
A vote of thanks was passed to Mr Padbury for this liberal
donation, and the Secretary requested to Notify the same to Mr Padbury, as well
as to have it published in the Local Journals.
The discussion of the alleged inferiority of the Coloured
Races was resumed by
Mr Smith- Who stated he heard nothing advanced to shake
his opinion in the inferiority of those races nor does it appear that the Works
attributable to them were of the production of the Coloured races-Again
referred to the Lordstone? He being known to the Blacks for Centuries; but
whenever at the bottom; until known to the Whites-compare the white and
Coloured races in reference to coming? Of Space. Shows the superior 80 of the
white Man-alluded to the Crystal Palace far surpassing anything in act done by
the Coloured races either ancient or Modern Times. All that Mr Johnston has
said in favour of the white race he instantly gainsays it and gives preference
to the coloured.
Mr Johnstone-Is again sorry to have to correct Mr Smith in
reference to the Architectural designs of the Permits, to which he never
attributed any such qualities.-Referred to them as to the utility of their
constitution in connection with the Cardinal points-Alluded to an Alabaster
Coffin made by the Agents, nothing of act was to equal it.-And that the Egyptians
practical knowledge of Astronomy equal to ours-All the great buildings of Egypt
were the work of the Coloured races, The Munomein? 7 miles in length superior
to the Crystal Palace-and History is full of the accounts of the ____of the
Coloured races-mentioned the Thalchmate? of India one of the present wonders of
the age-demonstrates the ____in _____, in the _____the blood of the Coloured-referred
to the Book of Genesis-respecting the Creation of Man-and states it is the
opinion of many famous learned Men that there are two created beings-
Mr Campbell- Adhere to his former opinion
Mr Greswell-Contends a white is superior in intellect and
Mr Johnston’s argument is far to show this evident superiority.
Mr Leonowns-Has not heard much of the discussion but in what
has fallen from Mr Johnston he fully concurs-they are very intelligent native
is in the East Indies, was personally acquainted with a Gentleman Parsee, a
Ship builder whose work in that branch of Science was Superb, and the natives
are ingenuous in works of arts, literature and Science. Their colour it is that
makes an unfavourable impression. There is no inferiority of intellect in the
Coloured races. Solomon the wisest of all Men was a Coloured Man-and from the
East, and God himself spoke from the East-and all tend to show the superiority
of the Coloured races.
Mr Nairn-Is in favour of the black races.
Mr Farmanar-Also in favour of the Coloured races.
Mr Fox-Cannot reconcile out Mr Johnstone is one moment in
favour of the white and next all ____to the Coloured-and yet selects a passage
of Scripture to show that there were two distinct races in whatever Country or
at any period are as intellectual as the White, if they had the same moral
Cultivation.
Mr Farrelly-What has been said by the different speakers
clearly tends to prove that there is no essential inferiority in the Coloured
races-Mr Johnston has proved from history (although fighting with both hands)
in favour of the Coloured races, four from whence did we desire originally, our
Knowledge of Arts, literature and Science-Much of it from the Egyptians Arabs
etc-they were not White; and if Climate change the skin, it does not follow
therefore that it should change the intellect-it is therefore futile to advance
their inferiority they are not _______ so-The Idea of us at the present day is
in favour of the Crystal Palace-but with all its grandeur and beautiful
illustrations it is far inferior to the Coins in? the formation of the Pyramids
referred to Dr Maddox and other travellers who visited them in 1820s-Alluded to
the Magnificent Palaces etc of Mexico-they had no white Man to leave marks of
Civilisation as war as facetiously applied by Mr Smith to some native tribes in
South Australia.
The Secretary-Contended there was no intellectual
inferiority in the Coloured races-they are only required to have the mind
Cultured when they would show forth in equal proportions with the white race.
Mr B Smith-After all that has fallen from Mr Reilly it
only shows more clearly the superiority of the White-for the black requires the
intelligence of the white to teach him-Never heard of such a thing as a
building of 7 miles long-9/10s of their Cities were squares of three or 4 miles
long with a building in the Centre-He never heard of such a thing before. Read
of the Seven Wonders of the World, two of which were the great Wall of China
and the Pyramids of Egypt-but the greatest of all was talking of 7 Miles of
Building Referred to the Physical force of the camp Indies their Rights were
officered by Europeans-as to their Sculpture- ____ etc what are they to be
compared to the Electrical Telegraphs, Steam Engine etc- Mr Johnston has
referred to a fleet of ships shown off before one of the Roman Emperors-why son
the ships of those days were mere _____compared to the ships of the present
day-There were no buildings ever erected by the Coloured races but could be roofed?
by the present race of White Men-the sculptured figures and paintings have been
executed from the ____ yes to preserve them.
Mr Johnston-Is again sorry to mark sen will se of the
total absence of Mr Smith’s knowledge of the subject under discussion, and
however reluctant, to say, would recommend him to read history before he
attempts to argue a question which are so fully and clearly demonstrated by
history-as the existence and extent of the Monuments referred to broader
Herodotus the historian who attests the truth of their great Labyrinths, and
cannot see with what _____he speaks so lightly of the Verity of travellers of
character who have written on this or any other subject
The Aborigines of South America and the North West part of
Australia do not manifest the same intellect as the whites-but international
discourse between white and coloured races necessary towards
civilisation-adverted to the rise and fall of Empires, Kings and People, and
that England now the Seat of Civilisation may in days to come leave nothing of
the present grandeur but a vast solitude, where the weary traveller from some
distant land they take his stand from bridge of London and view the ruins of
this once mighty Empire.
It being 10 o’clock the discussion was adjourned
Approved
G Lazenby, Chairman.
S R M Institute Monday, 19 June 1854
Committee assembled
Present- The Chairman, Secretary, Treasurer,Messrs
Johnston, Leonowens, Farmanar & Nairn.
The Chairman opened and read a Tender from Mr Bond in
reference to the completion of the Book shelves for the Institute- Proposed to
Complete them for £4.1.0.
Resolved- That the Tender of Mr Bond be accepted-no other
tender having been received.
Mr Johnston-Notified that in accordance with what he had
stated to the Institute about 10 months ago in reference to the “Times
Newspaper” that he had written to the Rev J H Gwythers Vicar of Nately Salop-
President of the Mechanics Institute there-and then he received a reply by the
last Mail from that Revd Gentlemen informing him that the first file of these
papers were posted in January last for us-and for which we were to pay a
trifling remuneration equal to that of Waste paper. He also called attention
again to the desirability of Members delivering lectures themselves, and
alluded to the great good done to the Mechanics Institutes in England by the
adoption of such measures-and therefore hoped we would no longer be soliciting
such favours from Gentlemen however considerate these may be, but that we
should look to ourselves as the workingmen do in fatherland.
Mr Leonowens- That the best team this of this meeting are
due to Mr Johnston for the interest he has not only taken in this instance of
obtaining newspapers from England but also for the energetic zeal he has given hitherto
manifested in the furtherance and advancement of the interest of the Institute.
Mr Bond- Highly approved of the hall of what has fallen
from Mr Johnston in reference to the Members delivering lectures (if not to the
Public at least to those among the Members themselves)-it would be concerning
an incalculable boon to the youth of the Colony-and an inducement to young Men
to attend closely to the Cultivating of the Mind.
The Chairman (G
Lazenby)-acquiesced on the views entertained, but he considered the difficulty
would be to get persons of the Institute to come forward and lecture-Many
Gentlemen present belonging to the Institute who were quite able to do so-has
in his own person and felt quite important for such a task.
Mr Farmanar – Enquired
if we had received any Newspapers from New Zealand and Sydney and if we
continued sending them to the Mechanics Institutes of these Colonies.
The Librarian-Had
received instructions to discontinue if no papers from these Institutes were
received by the present mail, none having come he has therefore discontinued
them.
Mr Farmanar- That our
Papers be sent to the Mechanics Institutes of Hobart Town and Adelaide, and
that the Secretary be directed to write to these Colonies-apprising the
Secretaries thereof-with a request for an exchange of papers.
Agreed to.
Resolved – That the Chairman and Treasurer prepare
plans and specifications for the two rooms in contemplation of erection.
Discussion
Class- Present the aforesaid
Committee and Messrs Farmer, G Campbell, R Campbell, and Smith, J Reilly, Bond
and Lambley?
The discussion on
the alleged inferiority of the Coloured Races was resumed by
Mr Leonowens- In
regard of the inferiority of one race from another, it may appear where the
Coloured races are debarred from the advantages of education and ______ -
______ inferior in intellectual acquirements to those who have had such
advantages-the East Indian have not the means of education as in England-for
the absence of the high acquirements desirable in our country-The Native Troops
being officered by Europeans no proof of their inferiority intellect-they may
be physically so-these Officers are very often inferior in mind to the Native
troops they command- many of whom possess a fund of saved knowledge did we but
know their language-they are excellent Mathematicians, Astronomers and
particularly well versed in the history of their own Country-Physically
speaking the English Officers and Soldiers are superior-for there is nothing
like the British Bayonet directed with a British hand-There are no British
Accountants in any of the Government offices in India-the Hindoo and Parsee who
fill many of them arise to very great eminence.
Mr Bond-Has
knowledge of the native tradesmen of Singapore comment warrants him to speak
highly of them-for he considered that many of them were superior Workmen to
himself-they were excellent bricklayers, shoemakers and their work as well
executed as by a European-and he considered them as good workmen as London
could produce-If we knew their language we would speak more favourable of them.
Mr B Smith- Cannot
agree in the opinion of those Gentlemen who preceded him, reference has been
made to the tradesmen of Singapore-we have excellent specimens of the Chinese
intellect here, as to their tradesmen we have no opinion to offer unless by the
articles imported, and if these are closely examined and not fit to be turned
off. If surprise should exist, it is in the astonishment of being so well
coming from such a quarter for they have neither perspective or design in their
works of art as otherwise-it appears we are to judge of the quality of a nation
by its Architectural constructions-but this does not constitute _____of
mind-what certitude have we let these great Buildings are the production of
either the Egyptians or Greeks?
It is contended by some
Gentlemen that if the Coloured races were educated they would be equal to us,
but in many instances they have had this advantage but notwithstanding they
have retrograde-the intellectual acquirements is equal to that of the Women
which goes to a certain extent and no further-As to their practical knowledge
of Astronomy-I ask is it to be compared with the celebrated Astronomers of the
present day-give them every advantage that we possess, and they will still
remain inferior to the moral and intellectual greatness of the White Man.
Mr Campbell-
Referred to the Creation-all Men proceeded from Adam, and that after the deluge
the Natives of the earth were peopled from the Sons of Noah-that through sin
men degenerated-and intellect impaired-and barbarous conduct was manifested in
many Countries calling themselves civilised as amongst the Africans and other
uncivilised nations, and nothing inferior with intellect, mind only requires
actuation?
Mr Fox- It is
still my opinion that the Coloured races with the advantages we possess of
Education would be equal in intellectual acquirements as the white races-gave
his explication of a text of Scripture in reference to Man’s Creation, and
quoted from the Apostle Paul that all men were of ‘one blood’ claimed is
privilege right to express his views on any subject, he was anxious thereby to
elicit information from those who are more highly favoured with the benefits of
education.
The Chairman- Quite
agree with Mr Fox that we all meet here the mutual good-referred to the
Proposition and contended that the word ‘essential’ should not form a part
thereof-differed from Mr Fox’s interpretation of the passage of Scripture in
reference to the creation-the spirit never was created, he believed that the
spirit-the soul of man-proceeds from the deity and is part of himself-Europeans
were not always superior-but what I contend for is in reference to the present
day, that the European is all that is good, that is great and noble-and that
his attainments are far eminently above any other race of men- for Polygamy was
practised by the Coloured races to such an extent that they have thereby
deteriorated in their Mental faculties. Industry cultivates health, in body and
mind and Idleness as the contrary effect as ____and destructive to moral
energy- though I contend the Coloured races do not give evidence of
intellectual attainments-the Chinese and Indians may no doubt be clever, but
taking in any Art or Science have shown themselves to be far inferior to our
race-they want that intelligence and Civilisation which necessarily constitutes
a great and noble mind-with these opinions firmly fixed I beg to propose an
amendment ‘that the intellectual inferiority of the coloured races are
correct!’
Mr Johnston- To
answer the many objections advanced by the Chairman and Mr Smith and wade
through such a labyrinth would require more time than was disposed to him-
____with an Exposition of the Chairman’s opinion in reference to the Spirit and
Soul of Man- referred to Holy ____- Called attention to the Mohammedan Koran-
and the belief of the Hindoos of India- as holding similar views.
Alluded to the inferiority of
Races- compared the relative position of the White and Coloured and the
manifold advantages he had over the Coloured of the present day-to arrive and
attain the highest eminence in history attainments- Read an Extract of a
statistic on England in reference to the moral degeneration of its people and
showing that at the present day that there are 154 200 unable to write and this
in Civilised England- Cork of the inferiority of the mind, he is absence of
intellectual acquirements-which is pitiful to contemplate-tens and hundreds of
thousands of people who know not A from B buried in an amount of ignorance
unparalleled-except amongst the most uncivilised barbarians- Here Mr Johnson
entered into a most minute detail of the history of the human race- dwelt upon
the anatomical construction of the human body-and reviewed the stupendous Acts
of ancient grandeur still extant-the works of the Coloured Man-but note that
only his former acquirements Mr Johnston observed-that at the present period the
Coloured races do not possess the same high intellectual attainment the White
Man does-but the Coloured Man alike with the White has an immortal spirit to be
developed like the Angels of God.
The Secretary- That
there were Natives more susceptible of cultivation more highly civilised and
more enabled by moral culture than others-but that all were alike to freedom
and not to be slaves-that no matter the ____the Soul
The Chairman
having summed up-and on his amendment being put- ‘that the intellectual
inferiority of the Coloured caps races are correct’ - there was only time for
it-amendment lost accordingly.
The Chairman
having put the Secretary’s Amendment
‘That the alleged
inferiority discernible in the coloured races is not an inherent attribute of
their nature but the effects of the sterile mind for want of ‘Cultivation’.’
Was carried, only
two objecting.
02/10/1854
Mr Hughes opened
the Subject for discussion.
‘Is the infliction
of Capital Punishment consonant with the principles that should guide a state
in the enforcement of the penal system; and as such punishment agreeable to the
dictation of justice or consonant to the feelings of humanity?’
And observed that
it was a subject for the consideration of Common humanity-did the infliction of
Capital punishment deter the evildoer. He must emphatically say-no. Referred to
the old penal System where for every _____the value of 10/- proven against the
prisoner death was the result-and of a Consequence the infliction of Capital
punishment meant death was more common than that at the present day- but
____have the hardihood to say that notwithstanding this severity that it’s
punishment deterred others from rapine and Murder-no Sir- prevention is better
than Crime- life is sacred-it’s only a legal murder to take away the life of a
fellow being by hanging-the ignorant and heartless Murderer is lost to every
sense of humanity-then it’s the parental duty of the state to endeavour a
reformation which would be more consonant to the Christian healing than the
infliction of death- for _____- petty larcenies and other crimes and
misdemeanours- which was the awful visitation under the old penal system-
Referred to the solitary system adopted in Millbank- Considered perpetual
imprisonment is the most severest of punishments-why not adopt its infliction
in all cases-it would have the desired effect-to a greater extent than that of
instantaneous or legal Murder-and he contended that no single argument can be
brought in favour of Capital punishment- We are far behind other Countries in
this subject-and and if instances from holy writ the adduced in favour of
Capital Punishment I can bring counter texts to prove the fallacy of such.
I will therefore move ‘that the infliction
of Capital Punishment is not consonant with the principles of justice-that is
not agreeable to the dictates of reason-and that any penal system in which it
is included is not based upon sound principles’.
Dr Gray- Preferred
the following Amendment
That Capital punishment is in accordance
with human reason and also to the dictate of humanity.
In order to support which-and
looking upon the same sources of thoughts as that already pursued that Capital
punishment had not been a terror to the evildoer- Referred to 1829 when the Masses
of the people were inquiring ignore its and without education their
intellectual destitution may account in some Measure for the too frequent
repetition of Crime- and to deter from such deeds Capital punishment was
necessary- at the period in question the Masses of the people he did not the
enlightenment and therefore the same sublimity of thought as the present age- a
knowing and wilful Murderer deserves death- rebutted in reference to his
remarks on holy writ- repudiates the idea of torturing a Man by inches- or
would be the consequence in the adoption of perpetual solitary imprisonment- Mr
Hughes says life is sacred-but to the Convict he will say-I will not take your
life by hanging-but I will put you in perpetual imprisonment where you shall
not see the light of day no nor converse with your fellow Man-and there you
will remain- I will take your life away by inches- here is humanity. Better to
let justice have its course in the infliction of Capital Punishment than to
inflict such a Monstrous punishment- I will though contend that if one man
takes away the life of another, just as requires, nay demands that the Murderer
should lose his life, sympathy may be given to him by those around- but to the
cold-blooded Murderer- humanity shrinks at the idea.
Mr Farrelly- Mr
Gray’s anticipation of an opposition was a just apprehension-for he certainly
was not prepared to hear that there could be men found who would advocate the
justification of Capital Punishment- did its infliction deter from Acts of
evil- certainly not -then why not abrogate such a law? - The Moral law is thou
shalt not kill- Solitary imprisonment is admitted to be the severest penal
punishment- this he was considered referable to death- under the penal ______
the Convict would have an opportunity for bitter reflection- and perhaps by a
serious and true repentance, making his peace with his offended God.
Alluded to the Execution of the
Mannings and Rurk? And referred to the public ____ of England ____show that at
the foot of the Gallows the most intolerant immoral and brutal Crimes were
committed- Murder itself was all but perfected- with such attested facts as
these is he not justified by all law human and divine in saying that it is not
consonant with the feelings of humanity to instantaneously by hanging or other
decapitation take away that life which is not in the power of Man to restore- that
as justice requires the punishment of the evildoer in Common humanity let
perpetual Imprisonment be substituted- instead of the Severer Capital
Punishment which does not deter under the Gallows from Commission of Acts the
Most abominable destruction of all order and subversive of all good Government.
Mr Nairn- is in
favour of Capital Punishment- prevention is better than crime-if he will kill
he that does so should lose his life in atonement.
Mr B Smith- Must
oppose Mr Hughes preposition- in reference to humanity- an eye for an eye and a
tooth for a tooth- Perpetual Imprisonment is not the greatest Capital- while
there is life there is hope- and the Murderer who wilfully takes away the life
of another in open violation of human and divine law deserves to be visited
with the most vigorous punishment-death- but Mr Hughes reasons that to hang is
only a legal Murder-not taken immediately- and drawn out by inches until the
watched Man ends a Miserable existence in Solitary Confinement- oh but he will
have time to repent- what certainty for this avowal is very many instance when
‘Men get out of prison after sentence they recurred to their former vicious
habits’- adverted to the old penal system- and enumerated different crimes
punishable with death under it-he was no advocate for such wholesale Capital
Punishment and then existed- but reserve the infliction of this punishment
solely for Wilful Murder.
Mr Johnston-
Adverted to the circumstances of a taking away the life of another in that case
society places itself in the place of the person Murdered- and demands
restitution, and as the Murderer cannot give back that which she has taken away
justice must be administered and then maintained- Alluded to the opinions of
Johnston and Scott on Capital Punishment- relating several striking occurrences
from their observations- one of which was the wife during the poison which she
had placed in the gruel- which the ____ ____ was tearing the vitals of her
husband- as it was late he would not enter further on the subject- but here was
a subject worthy of serious consideration but was an advocate for Capital
Punishment.
It being 9:30 the
Chairman adjourned the Meeting.
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